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On this episode of Invested, Michael hosts May Piamenta, the co-founder and CEO of Vee. May started her first business, Pineapple, at 14 years old and sold it right before she turned 17. She was a community services manager at RoboActive, followed by a role as an international project lead at First, a global robotics community. May then joined the IDF, where she was an electronics warfare commander and started working on her current company, Vee. After her military service, May mentored at Google Activate and took Vee full time. Following a sharp pivot in 2021, Vee now enables nonprofit teams and founders to grow their teams efficiently without hiring people, by giving them AI agents that can do everything from hiring to grant writing, social media management, bookkeeping and admin work, etc.
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[00:00:00] May Piamenta:
He told me, “You have three weeks to present your company's idea to all commanders of the unit.” And I was like, “Okay, I'm going to do it.”
It is my biggest, biggest pride. It’s been such a crazy ride.
[00:00:12] Michael Eisenberg:
We're going to get into that in a second. When you started the company, you were still in the military,
[00:00:16] May Piamenta:
Correct.
[00:00:16] Michael Eisenberg:
How did that happen?
[00:00:17] May Piamenta:
The nonprofit market in general is really unfair. We need to figure out how we're getting all of these organizations out of survival mode.
I was caught with a computer, and they wanted to send me to jail. I cried for six weeks. I had no idea what I'm gonna do.
The toughest thing about layoffs, it's not the layoff itself. It's keeping a team after.
If you ask me what is my biggest achievement from the pivot, it's the fact they have the same team.
Wow, October 7th. It's probably the toughest question you asked.
[00:00:47] Michael Eisenberg:
I am super excited about today's podcast. I am here with May Piamenta, someone who I admire. She doesn't even know why I admire her so much, but she's heard it before, partially. And I'm thrilled to have you on the Invested podcast, because I actually can't think of any young person who more embodies what we talk about on this podcast than you. And so welcome, May.
[00:01:11] May Piamenta:
Thanks so much Michael. I’m super excited.
[00:01:14] Michael Eisenberg:
I think you're also the youngest guest we ever had on the podcast–without giving away your age or asking you yet how old you are. How old are you?
[00:01:20] May Piamenta:
24.
[00:01:21] Michael Eisenberg:
May is 24. Tell us who May Piamenta is today.
[00:01:24] May Piamenta:
So, hi everyone, my name is May, I'm the co-founder and CEO of Vee.com. I'm a board member of a few non-profit organizations, and I'm based here in Tel Aviv.
[00:01:36] Michael Eisenberg:
And now you're going to be blown away. May, tell us about yourself, but I insist that you start, like, from the womb, like where you grew up, everywhere.
[00:01:43] May Piamenta:
Okay, so firstly it's not hard. It's not, I'm not much of a tough benchmark to be the youngest one, you know, on the podcast. So I'm May, I'm 24. I grew up in Dimona.
[00:01:55] Michael Eisenberg:
Okay. Anyone listening to the podcast that knows where Dimona is?
The silence says that nobody knows. So tell everyone where Dimona is.
[00:02:02] May Piamenta:
So Dimona is a small town in Southern Israel, but it's pretty big. Probably the best city in the world. I love Dimona. I think it contains like 40,000 people. I grew up in Dimona. I'm the oldest sister out of three siblings. Amazing, amazing parents.
[00:02:22] Michael Eisenberg:
Yeah. Like Dimona is, you get down to Beer Sheba in the desert more or less.
May Piamenta:
Right.
Michael Eisenberg:
And you make a left turn, kind of, and go east.
[00:02:28] May Piamenta:
Correct.
[00:02:28] Michael Eisenberg:
And then you see desert around, the middle of the desert, and there's more desert, and then there's Dimona.
[00:02:34] May Piamenta:
Correct.
[00:02:34] Michael Eisenberg:
Of 40,000 people.
[00:02:36] May Piamenta:
Yeah.
[00:02:36] Michael Eisenberg:
And that's where May grew up. It's not a high tech hotbed. Would you agree?
May Piamenta:
Oh, no. It's not a high tech hotbed.
[00:02:41] May Piamenta:
But Yossi Benayoun went out of Dimona.
[00:02:43] Michael Eisenberg:
Yossi Benayoun, who is? Famous music star?
[00:02:47] May Piamenta:
No, football.
[00:02:48] Michael Eisenberg:
Oh, football player. Sorry. That's another Benayoun. You see, I don't know anything about pop culture, which is going to make this conversation interesting.
[00:02:53] May Piamenta:
That's Amir Benayoun. Amir.
[00:02:54] Michael Eisenberg:
Amir Benayoun. Sorry. Okay, and so you get to the middle of Dimona. And there's like nothing there.
One of the last times I was in Dimona, there's something called “Shchunat Hanitzachon,” which is Victory Square. It looks like it's a victory from, you know, the Soviet era.
[00:03:07] May Piamenta:
Oh yeah.
[00:03:08] Michael Eisenberg:
There's like, big blocks. Your mom grew up there. And just to paint this picture for everybody, it's a full square block, actually two full square blocks, with Soviet-style, square buildings with a big courtyard in the middle, which is just concrete, basically, right?
[00:03:22] May Piamenta:
Looks the same, looks exactly the same.
[00:03:25] Michael Eisenberg:
Okay. And you grew up there, not a hightech hotbed. And now tell us about your high school days, and what you started there.
[00:03:31] May Piamenta:
So I think it actually goes even before that. When I was eight, my best friend, Amit, passed away from cancer. She was the most important part of my life. When she had her leukemia, she couldn't take any medicine or do anything without May. She needed me next to her and we were super close. We were living, you know, one next to each other, since we were born. And when she passed away, it was like all of a sudden–she had no severe changes in her condition–and after she passed away, I just knew I'm gonna do something about it, but I didn't know what.
I was super young. I was eight. When I turned 13, I read a book, I think it was called The Fault in Our Stars, or something like this. And she spoke in the book about how tough it was to have no hair, and how it was super tough for her socially. And that was the first time I thought about how it was for Amit.
I think it was a week after I read the book, I saw an article in Dimona’s local newspaper–not any fancy newspaper–where they invited girls and young women to come and donate their hair. So I went and said, “Okay, I'm going to go and I'll see, like, how hard can it be?” And I went.
The issue was, I didn't have enough hair to donate, so I said, “I'm gonna do this long braid, and I'm just gonna shave the rest.” And I said, “Okay,” and I left the room with no hair. And that was the first time I was so proud of myself, because I said, “Wow, this is how Amit felt.” And I felt like I knew what she went through, and I knew she's proud of me, but as a little girl, it was super tough socially. I felt like what she said in the book.
[00:05:37] Michael Eisenberg:
And just to be clear, you shaved your hair to donate it to cancer patients, so they could have hair.
[00:05:42] May Piamenta:
Correct. Time passed and I had to switch and move to a different school, specifically because kids were evil, and I had to switch to a different school.
[00:05:53] Michael Eisenberg:
You were being bullied for shaving your head and giving your hair to cancer patients.
[00:05:58] May Piamenta:
Yeah, you know, back then it was such a disaster for me. I didn't know what to do, and the only option I saw was I needed to leave this school. But now, I really don't care why they did it. And it's like, to me, it just built my character even more.
When I do good things, I need to be proud of it no matter what. And I'll tell you a story. The inspiration for me, my inspiration–I had two role models in my life. One is my mom. She's the kindest person on earth. By the way, she now hosted all the evacuees from Otef Aza in her hotel in the Dead Sea for a year.
And she became one of the kibbutz, like she became a kibbutz member. They wanted her to come move to the new kibbutz with them. She's amazing.
[00:06:48] Michael Eisenberg:
These are the Gaza refugees, the people who had to leave their homes after October 7th. Many of them were relocated, quote unquote, or evacuated to the Dead Sea area, where there are a bunch of hotels. And her mom runs a hotel there and took them all in.
[00:06:59] May Piamenta:
Yeah. Her name is Chagit. My other role model is my grandfather. He passed away exactly a year ago, a month after October 7th. And my grandfather, his name was Joshua–he was the world for me, and he was the deputy mayor in Dimona. And he was doing only tzedakah.
Michael Eisenberg:
Only charity.
[00:07:25] May Piamenta:
Only charity. All the time.
[00:07:26] Michael Eisenberg:
If you're the deputy mayor in Dimona, I should say, everybody knows who you are. I've actually been down there, met the mayor, Benny Bitton, and everybody, he's like Superman of Dimona, so to speak. Everyone knows who he is. And May's grandfather was his deputy.
[00:07:38] May Piamenta:
Yeah. And Mayor Cohen's deputy, the one before Benny, he was only doing charity. I remember him taking me at 4 a.m. to go and fix this random women's problem she has in her house, and we need to do it now, and we're going, all of us, because she needs help right now, and it doesn't matter what's the time.
And I will connect to the story of the hair. I came back, and I was so, it was too much for me, and I said, “If I need to stay in this school, I need to have hair.” So I ordered, on eBay, a wig. It was a blonde wig. I have no idea why I did blonde, really. And I think it was like a day or two days after, I couldn't find the wig, and I had to go to school.
I was like, “Sabah, where's the wig?” We lived together after my grandma passed away, also from cancer, we moved to live with my grandfather. It was like, where is the wig? And he's like, “You're not wearing this. I threw it away. You're beautiful with or without the wig.” And he gave me the power to say, I just need to be proud of the good things I do. And everyone else, they just will never understand.
[00:08:51] Michael Eisenberg:
Wow. And so you switched schools then? Because people, they bullied you about your hair and your grandfather gave you energy, and you went to the next school.
[00:09:01] May Piamenta:
Yes.
[00:09:01] Michael Eisenberg:
And then what happened?
[00:09:02] May Piamenta:
That was the best thing that could have happened to me. And when I landed in the new school, I had no friends, and I sat next to this amazing, amazing girl that ended up being my best friend in school. Her name was Ziv. She also knew Amit, so that was closure for me. And she said, “You have to come with me. We have a robotics team, and there are interviews today.”
And I was like, robotics? Like, this is my first day, this is what you're telling me? No, no, no, no robotics for me. And I came. Long story short, I joined the robotics team of the school. This robotics team is part of a huge competition of an amazing organization called FIRST, an American nonprofit organization that runs robotic competitions all around the world. I joined when I was 13, ended up leading the team with Ziv, and the rest of the team to be semi-world champions in my last year, representing Israel, representing Dimona, and yeah.
And now I've been mentoring the team, up until now.
[00:10:09] Michael Eisenberg:
And where did you go to as part of this team?
[00:10:11] May Piamenta:
Detroit, Houston, Texas.
[00:10:14] Michael Eisenberg:
Which was like?
[00:10:15] May Piamenta:
A whole complete new world to me. And also English, Michael. English. It was so, you know, unique to know English where I grew up. Like to me, when I go in Dimona right now, people are like, who here's the American?
But it really was such an amazing pedestal for me, from where I started to what I became. And I had a mentor in the team called Etty. She's the woman who made me who I am.
[00:10:48] Michael Eisenberg:
Tell us more about Etty.
[00:10:50] May Piamenta:
Wow, so Etty, she is a superhero. She's a biology teacher, who ended up taking ownership of this team, started it, mentored it up until today.
She is the woman that just believes in kids that nobody else believes in, and she gives us so much strength, and she really changed my life. She's probably the only person that you'll ask me to talk about, and I have no words to describe Etty.
[00:11:29] Michael Eisenberg:
I just find it fascinating how we meet people through our life, particularly kind of unique teachers after a bunch of bad educational experiences, and that kind of one person who's there can literally shift you.
For me, and people have heard this before, there was a rabbi named Rabbi Michael Hecht, he's not very well right now, who was a person like that for me in the 11th grade. And you know, people don't run into somebody like that. It's a pity.
And then you finished high school in Dimona, you go to the military where you do–well from Dimona, keep going.
[00:12:02] May Piamenta:
Yes. Actually before we go to the service, I think a big part of me and a big part of my journey was actually Pineapple, my first business.
[00:12:13] Michael Eisenberg:
I was going to come to that afterwards, but you can go to it now. Go ahead.
[00:12:16] May Piamenta:
Oh no. So we can definitely go to the army, but Pineapple also was a huge part of me.
[00:12:22] Michael Eisenberg:
How old were you when you started Pineapple?
[00:12:23] May Piamenta:
14.
[00:12:23] Michael Eisenberg:
Okay. I thought you were 16, but I'm glad to hear it's 14. Go ahead.
[00:12:26] May Piamenta:
Yeah. Okay. I actually sold Pineapple just a month before I turned 17.
[00:12:31] Michael Eisenberg:
So tell everyone what Pineapple was.
[00:12:33] May Piamenta:
So, Pineapple was an e-commerce shop for swimwear and beach equipment.
[00:12:41] Michael Eisenberg:
For those who don't know, Dimona is nowhere near the beach. Right?
[00:12:44] May Piamenta:
Yeah, no.
[00:12:46] Michael Eisenberg:
There are sand dunes around, but there's no beach yet.
[00:12:48] May Piamenta:
No beach, no beach. So it was just a regular day in the mall, in this small Dimona mall, that everybody knows because everyone stops there as they drive to Eilat.
[00:12:59] Michael Eisenberg:
Yeah.
[00:13:00] May Piamenta:
And I remember when I went to the mall with my friends, and one of them wanted to get swimwear and she said, “There's no way that's the only option. It's so expensive.” And back then we had someone from the Bedouins community, and in Southern Israel, really close to Dimona, that his wife, he was working with my dad, his name was Munir and his wife was a sew-er.
[00:13:30] Michael Eisenberg:
A seamstress.
[00:13:30] May Piamenta:
Yes. And when I met Munir and she came, she used to come to us once in a while, and I asked her, “Look, Shafira, is there a chance you can make, like, five swimsuits, like pairs of swimsuits that I can give my friends for like 50 shekels?” And she said, “Yalla, okay, let's do it.”
So we did five and then we did 10, and then we did 20, and then we did 50, and it exploded in the school, and then exploded in the city. And I said, “Okay, I need to build a website, and let's start.” And I used Wix. I remember going on Zooms with Nir Zohar.
[00:14:10] Michael Eisenberg:
The president of Wix.
[00:14:11] May Piamenta:
But like 10 years ago.
[00:14:12] Michael Eisenberg:
Yeah. When he was still sitting like on a porch on Hashmonaim street in Tel Aviv, before Wix was a something.
[00:14:18] May Piamenta:
Yean, giving me a demo of Wix. I was one of the first businesses to use their payment systems and it was amazing. And this is how I built Pineapple. My uncles did deliveries for me all across Israel.
And when I turned, I think it was 16 and a half, I wanted to really focus on robotics. And I was like, okay, I need to finish school properly. I wanted to reach a good unit in my army service, and I said, “Okay, I'm gonna give up a Pineapple,” and I sold it to an amazing designer. As she now she's part of TwentyFour Seven.
I don't think Pineapple works since 2021, but it was such a beautiful first business.
[00:15:01] Michael Eisenberg:
Why did you call it Pineapple?
[00:15:03] May Piamenta:
That was the first thing I saw in the logo maker. Honestly, I'm really not a name person. People ask me, “Why did you call Vee, Vee?” And I'm like, “I really don't remember.”
[00:15:14] Michael Eisenberg:
And now, what'd you do in the army then?
[00:15:17] May Piamenta:
So I served in an amazing unit. I served combat. I know, I don't look combat.
[00:15:27] Michael Eisenberg:
You can't see, but this is not like, but you can see May’s face, but she doesn't exactly look like your prototypical combat soldier.
[00:15:34] May Piamenta:
Yeah.
[00:15:36] Michael Eisenberg:
Maybe with the shaved head you would have, but–
[00:15:39] May Piamenta:
So actually my family, it's all about Israel. My dad is also a Nechei Tzahal.
[00:15:48] Michael Eisenberg:
A wounded veteran.
[00:15:50] May Piamenta:
Yes. So he was injured during his training. He was shot in the leg, and he still has severe injuries since then. So to me it was a no-brainer that I'm doing combat. I was pretty excited. It was clear that I'm choosing the hard way, and I'm doing something meaningful.
And I served in a unit that is called “electronic warfare.” I cannot really elaborate a lot about my service, because it's really super classified, but I served for two years, eight months. I really wanted to even do more, but I decided to make more impact outside of the military.
[00:16:29] Michael Eisenberg:
Okay, now I'm going to pause for a second and ask the question I normally ask at the beginning, but I think it would be impossible for people to understand any answer you would give to this question without hearing your background, which is, if I asked you to tell me what is your core value, what is it?
[00:16:41] May Piamenta:
The thing that comes up first is discipline. Just to be a good person. Everything we do to do with the people in mind and make sure we do things with honesty, transparency, be “benadam.” Before everything else, to be a good person.
[00:17:02] Michael Eisenberg:
Be a good person. What drives you every day? Like sitting here,people don't understand how much energy you have.
[00:17:07] May Piamenta:
Yeah.
[00:17:07] Michael Eisenberg:
Although it is infectious.
[00:17:09] May Piamenta:
I know it sounds such a cliché, but to really create the change I want to see in the world. Not just expect it to happen, but really create the change and make sure that less families will need to deal with what Amit's family has to deal with, so kids will not have to go through what I went through. And just really create the world I would want myself and my kids and their kids to live in.
[00:17:45] Michael Eisenberg:
So, your current company is called Vee. Why don't you tell us for a second about Vee?
[00:17:50] May Piamenta:
Yes, wow. Vee is one of the things that I really, really love. My biggest, biggest pride. Vee, we’re changing the world by enabling nonprofit teams and nonprofit founders to grow their teams efficiently without hiring people.
So we're solving nonprofits’, basically their biggest problem, which is hiring and increasing capacity, by giving them AI agents that can hire, just by subscribing to specific, different products and tools–from grant writing, social media management, bookkeeping, admin work, everything they need and they would love and dream of hiring, but they can't. So they take our agents instead. They actually have names and faces and, with Vee, it's been such a crazy, crazy ride.
[00:18:46] Michael Eisenberg:
We're going to get into that in a second. Thank you. But when did you start Vee?
[00:18:50] May Piamenta:
Four and a half years ago, May 2020.
[00:18:52] Michael Eisenberg:
So you were 19 and a half when you started Vee?
[00:18:54] May Piamenta:
I was actually 20 exactly. I was born in May 2000.
[00:18:58] Michael Eisenberg:
Okay. What's your birthday? [00:19:00]
[00:19:00] May Piamenta:
May 16th. I'm Taurus.
[00:19:01] Michael Eisenberg:
Two days before me.
[00:19:03] May Piamenta:
You're also a Taurus.
[00:19:04] Michael Eisenberg:
I don't know any of these things. But I know that I'm born on May 18th. I know my birth date. Like I said, you know, I don't know soccer players. Or music. Or astrology. Not my thing.
If my math is correct, and you joined the army at 18, and you served two years and eight months, when you started the company, you were still in the military?
[00:19:26] May Piamenta:
Correct.
[00:19:26] Michael Eisenberg:
How did that happen?
[00:19:28] May Piamenta:
That's a long and super funny story.
[00:19:31] Michael Eisenberg:
Okay, we have time, go ahead.
[00:19:33] May Piamenta:
So I wanted to start Vee years before. When I was in FIRST–when I was in the competitions, I ended up joining FIRST, the organization that runs the competition. One of the founders of the organization, his name was Woody Flowers. He passed away in 2019. He was 94. He was an amazing man. So he wanted me to join the org, and I was really clueless.
I was the first and only girl to join from Israel. It was difficult. The entire team is based in Houston. And when I joined the organization, I was like, what a mess. And they are a huge organization. They run 150 million in donations every year, and programs. And what was interesting about FIRST is the organization is really large, but they are the fiscal organization, like the mom organization of over 600 smaller orgs.
[00:20:29] Michael Eisenberg:
Like the one in Dimona.
[00:20:32] May Piamenta:
Yeah. To me, what was really interesting is to see the differences and pain points of how a large organization that runs like a huge enterprise–everything is like clear CRMs, just like a tech company–but the 600 organizations was a huge mess. They have no manpower. No way. They were all in survival mode.
And I was like, wow, we need to figure out how we're getting all of these organizations out of survival mode. Because the nonprofit market in general is really unfair. You have the large organizations who get all the money, have huge operations, and the small ones are just trying to compete and be right-sized to compete against the big ones. And it's so tough for them.
So I said, “Okay, let's see what we can do.” And of course I served, and my military service was really tough. I served eight months in Mount Hermon.
[00:21:28] Michael Eisenberg:
Mount Hermon is like the northern post mountain in Israel.
[00:21:32] May Piamenta:
It's very cold up there.
[00:21:33] Michael Eisenberg:
It's very cold up there, and even snows there. It's actually Israel's only, you know, ski run. I wouldn't even call it a ski resort. It's Israel's only ski run, with two little chairlifts and an army base. And it's cold. People don't realize that about Israel, but it's like four or five different climates in this tiny little country.
[00:21:48] May Piamenta:
Yep.
[00:21:48] Michael Eisenberg:
Yep. Okay.
[00:21:50] May Piamenta:
I started the company when I was in the Hermon. And I had this amazing commander, and he said, “May, you cannot bring a computer here. You cannot, it's an intelligent base. You cannot bring a computer.” And when people tell me I cannot do something, I do it. So I brought the computer, and then he said, “May, if you want to continue doing this, you need to work outside of the base. You cannot go in with a computer.” That was the first thing he told me.
The second thing was, “If you're going to continue doing this, I will have to discharge you from Mount Hermon and move you to the center of Israel.” And I was like, yay, I really want to get the hell out of here! So I kept on working on the company.
So I brought the computer again and again, and he ended up moving me to a different role. So I ended up moving to the center, to Tzrifin, a different base. The problem was, Tzrifin was the base where the manager of the base, and the manager of the unit is based. So I came with a computer again.
And he was like, “What are you doing? Why do I have a civil computer here?” I was like, “What? I have an approval!” “Approval from who?” And then I was caught with a computer, and they wanted to send me to jail. They were like, “You cannot come with this. This is a felony. You're going to jail. I cried for six weeks.”
I was shitting in my pants. I had no idea what I'm going to do. The last thing I want to do is go to jail, and I'm such a nerd. Like, no one can send me to jail. I'm going to freak out. So I went to the unit's manager, the unit's commander, and I came to him, and I was like, “Yaniv, I'm sorry. I'm never going to come with a computer again.” He was like, “No. Sit down. Tell me the vision for your company.” He's a father of four girls based in Kiryat Gat, not far from Dimona.
[00:23:49] Michael Eisenberg:
Not far from Dimona.
[00:23:49] May Piamenta:
And he believed in me. You spoke about people we're meeting.
[00:23:54] Michael Eisenberg:
Yeah.
[00:23:54] May Piamenta:
You know, it's all people at the end of the day. And he told me, “You have three weeks to present your company's idea to all commanders of the unit, all officers of the unit. They all need to give me a recommendation letter to let you come with a computer.” And I was like, “Okay, I'm going to do it!” And the toughest thing you can do, and the best practice you can do before doing an investor pitch, is try to convince an army officer who has no idea what you want to do to sign this paper.
So I went and I got 36 signatures in three weeks. I drove to the Hermon, I drove to Be'er Sheva, I drove everywhere, but I got the signatures and everybody knew what I'm doing at the end. Like, at a certain point, it was like, “Okay, just tell me what I need to do to stop.” And I came back to him like, “Yaniv, Magad, you know, Commander, here are all the signatures.”
He was like, “I already got the approval, I just wanted to see if you're gonna do it.”
[00:24:55] Michael Eisenberg:
That's actually an only-in-Israel story, and only in the Israeli army story, I think every other army in the world, you would have been out and probably in jail.
[00:25:00] May Piamenta:
Oh yeah. Yeah. So that was how we did it. And I started gathering my co-founders and the first team, the initial team when I was still in the army.
I used to drive to Sarona–
Michael Eisenberg:
Center of Tel Aviv.
May Piamenta:
The center of Tel Aviv. And, you know, you were talking to me about, did I travel and did I go to the States before? I'd never been to Tel Aviv. And I used to drive from the base to Sarona, from the Hermon to Sarona, change and then meet investors, go back to my uniform–and I had an M16–and then I had to go back to Dimona.
So that was my routine for probably three months. At a certain point, I said, okay, I need to stop driving so much, because it wastes all my entire day. So I posted a Facebook post, at a group “Hey, I'm a soldier from Dimona, I'm building a company, I'm serving in the center and once a week I go to Mount Hermon. Can anyone adopt me?” And I was adopted by a family in Nes Tziona. I lived in their basement for six months.
And thanks to them, Vee was established basically.
[00:26:21] Michael Eisenberg:
What a story. Here's another one. We have Etti, we have Yaniv the commander, and now we have the family in Nes Tziona.
[00:26:26] May Piamenta:
Family David.
[00:26:28] Michael Eisenberg:
Family David in Nes Tziona. Incredible. Okay. Now, for those who don't know, many Israelis who go through the military take a trip, a tour. They go to South America, the Far East, wherever, sometimes America, after the army. You didn't do that.
[00:26:43] May Piamenta:
I did an investor around.
[00:26:44] Michael Eisenberg:
You did an investor tour. Yeah.
Why did you give up on the tour?
[00:26:50] May Piamenta:
It wasn't an option for me.
[00:26:52] Michael Eisenberg:
Not an option. Why?
[00:26:53] May Piamenta:
No, because I knew my mission was to build Vee.
[00:26:55] Michael Eisenberg:
Your mission was to build Vee.
May Piamenta:
Yeah.
Michael Eisenberg:
You're going to build Vee.
[00:26:57] May Piamenta:
Yeah.
[00:26:58] Michael Eisenberg:
And it's going to be successful. Okay. Now, I asked one of your investors, Amir Shafat, and Daniel Bernard, both of whom I know, and I said to them, “Give me a question to ask May,” and here we get into the kind of rollercoaster.
And so they said, and I met you early on in your journey, and so you've been around the space of nonprofits since the beginning of the company–but you took the AI thing and pivoted, but you didn't just have to pivot, you had a bunch of disagreements along the way, and you had to lay off a lot of people. Can we talk about that?
[00:27:40] May Piamenta:
Of course.
[00:27:41] Michael Eisenberg:
Go for it.
[00:27:42] May Piamenta:
So when we started Vee, we started with, as you mentioned, you know, a completely different path. We started with a different service and we wanted to–
[00:27:52] Michael Eisenberg:
All for nonprofits, it should be said, and for raising money for nonprofits and helping them scale up.
That's always been the mission.
[00:27:56] May Piamenta:
Yeah.
[00:27:57] Michael Eisenberg: Yeah.
[00:27:57] May Piamenta:
And you know, when we pivoted, we had runway and we could pivot. We had enough time to complete the pivot successfully, which we eventually did, but we did it because we did layoffs. And the only term and condition I gave to myself and my board members is, I'm not changing the mission, and I'm not changing my core management team.
If I'm going to do this, let's close the company. Because that will be a different company, with a different mission, with a different core team. So we started with a completely different service. It was a manual service, marketplace, super hard to scale, in person. We wanted to give nonprofits and solve the same problem basically, manpower, with actual manpower, and not AI.
And after a year and a half in the market, we saw how difficult it was for us to scale it. We had over 13,000 nonprofit organizations on our marketplace and over 600 employers.
[00:29:07] Michael Eisenberg:
And if I remember correctly, what the marketplace did was, companies that wanted to engage with nonprofits either for CSR or for other things, they could kind of connect through the marketplace to nonprofits, and they would run activities for the people. Some of it during COVID even happened online, and some happened in person.
[00:29:25] May Piamenta:
Correct. So, and I think something that happened to us was, because we started during COVID, all of the skilled-based volunteering opportunities and everything was virtual. So it scaled so quickly. But then–
[00:29:38] Michael Eisenberg:
Then COVID ended and to scale, you have to actually move human beings around somewhere. People wanted to see other people.
[00:29:43] May Piamenta:
Yeah. And then you have to cover insurance.
[00:29:46] Michael Eisenberg:
Right.
[00:29:46] May Piamenta:
And then you had, we had other problems that we didn't expect. And to me it was very clear.
We started getting emails and requests from customers. “Hey, we need to cut off the contract by 75%.” It's like, what happened? Like you're using, you're engaged. They're like, “Yeah, but we're laying off our staff.” We started getting emails from huge companies in the Valley, asking to cut the contracts.
It was like another one, and another one, and another one. And we were the first thing to cut. We weren't a must have. And we knew it from day one. And then we said, “Okay, so all the HR budgets are being cut off.” And the problem we had is, we're not an employee CRM that even if they lay off people, they still need to keep it.
We were user based, so if they laid off 75 percent of the staff, even if they really love us, they still need to cut 75 percent of the contract. So the model didn't work, and it wasn't scalable, so we said, “Okay, we need to pivot.” Easier said than done. And I know it sounds bad, but you know, honesty is everything to me.
It wasn't a choice, Michael. It was very clear this is what we need to do. This choice and this decision had various things that were very difficult in it. Like laying off my co-founder and my uncle, Gili, the best person on earth. My first co-founder.
[00:31:21] Michael Eisenberg:
How did that conversation go?
[00:31:23] May Piamenta:
Amazingly. I know it sounds so weird and people are like, “Yeah, she's lying.”
But I sat with Gili and it's like, “Gili, we need to break up.” And he's like, “May, if you did this conversation, you'd be able to do any conversation in life, and you need to be the Prime Minister of Israel.” And I said, “Don't exaggerate. I need to lay off 45 other people today.” And I remember this, it was Rosh Hashanah, you know, the Jewish holiday, the Jewish New Year.
And I called Jacob, our first investor from Horizon Capital. I said, “Jacob, we need to talk. I think we need to lay off everyone.” He’s like, “Ma? Like, what?” I was like, “Yeah, I think we need to lay off everyone. I know it sounds impulsive, but I see the data and I feel my gut. We need to lay off everyone.” He’s like, “Everyone, everyone?”
It was like, everyone, everyone. We were 56 employees, back then, and we turned out to be six, everyone. So we did it in two batches. So it's not going to be too impulsive and we will still have, you know, a chance to keep the business. We had quite a significant ARR back then. So we said, okay, let's start with just cutting off growth.
So we cut off growth first. And then we said, “Okay. Now after we cut off the growth, we still see the numbers start continuing to where we said, “We see the iceberg and we're facing the iceberg.” And this is where I said, “Okay, now we're going to lay off everyone.| And then he said, “Okay, May who are you talking about?”
And then I sat with Amir and he helped me to gather a list. And he gave me really good advice. He told me, “May, imagine tomorrow morning. Everybody in the company are giving you a resignation letter. Who are you keeping?”
[00:33:19] Michael Eisenberg:
It's the famous Netflix idea.
[00:33:21] May Piamenta:
Yeah.
[00:33:21] Michael Eisenberg:
Yeah.
[00:33:22] May Piamenta:
So I kept six people. So five people and myself. And I have to say the toughest decision was to keep myself.
[00:33:31] Michael Eisenberg:
Tell me more.
[00:33:32] May Piamenta:
Because you failed. Like, I felt like I failed. I failed. I could expect it. I could foresee the change. I could know that COVID will end. I couldn't expect the market, you know, to change that drastically.
You and I are very similar in, we look forward, and when we look on how we're changing things and we're not sticking to the past and to our mistakes. And that day it was, I needed to think if I'm able to lead this. And the only thing who gave me my confidence back was the team, and the board, and investors. Picking the right investors in the beginning is everything.
[00:34:24] Michael Eisenberg:
And did you make the right decision not to fire yourself?
[00:34:28] May Piamenta:
I'm not sure I can tell this about myself. Ask my team.
[00:34:34] Michael Eisenberg:
I should, by the way, appreciate you're saying about a dinosaur like me, 30 years older than you, that you think I still look forward and try to make the change.
I just want to say I appreciate that. That's not obvious. If you can tell my kids that I'd appreciate it even more. And so like, I guess the idea for the pivot is not that complicated. It's core to the mission that you started with, and you just decided to replace people with technology.
[00:34:56] May Piamenta:
I wish it was that easy.
[00:34:58] Michael Eisenberg:
Oh, good. Now, so now tell me why it wasn't.
[00:35:00] May Piamenta:
So when we wanted to pivot, I think the best thing we did is, we questioned everything. We questioned everything. We questioned the market. We questioned the team. We questioned the model, which–we questioned everything.
And when we did so, we could really see everything objectively and say, “Okay, now let's pick the right path that when we have enough time–” we had a year and a half of runway to pivot, you know–”And do it the right way, and do the right market research, and connect well with the market.” But the first thing we did was actually taking down the product. That we did before, and it took us six months, five months from October when we did the layoffs, to March, when we took down the product. And up until March, we were rolling around thinking of other ideas, thinking of other things to do. And when we took down the product, a magical thing happened.
We took down the marketplace and I started to get emails from the nonprofits that were on the marketplace–”May, what are you doing? You're the only people we had. Can we meet?” Michael, end of February, I spoke with Jacob and I told him, “I don't know what we're doing. We tried six different ideas. I don’t know.”
And whoever says you just need to be strong, and you don't–like, it's BS. Sorry for the word.
[00:36:35] Michael Eisenberg:
It's okay.
[00:36:36] May Piamenta:
Yeah, I was super depressed. I wanted everything to work out, and the toughest thing about layoffs, it's not the layoff itself. It’s keeping a team after, and making sure that they will not leave, that they will stick, that they will continue, they will have the energy to rebuild everything.
And if you ask me what is my biggest achievement from the pivot, it’s not the six figure ARR we have now. It’s the fact we have the same team, and the investors continue on investing in the company.
[00:37:08] Michael Eisenberg:
How many people do you have now at the company?
[00:37:09] May Piamenta:
Thirty-five.
[00:37:10] Michael Eisenberg:
Thirty-five. And how big is the growth now? What's the annual growth?
[00:37:15] May Piamenta:
What, rate?
Michael Eisenberg:
Yeah.
May Piamenta:
We did 10X this year.
[00:37:18] Michael Eisenberg:
10X. And next year?
[00:37:20] May Piamenta:
5X.
[00:37:21] Michael Eisenberg:
5X. You see it coming?
[00:37:22] May Piamenta:
Yeah. Now it's a numbers game.
[00:37:25] Michael Eisenberg:
Yeah, but it raises the question, like, is non-profit a good market segment? Like, is anyone going to pay you actually for AI agents in the non-profit world? Like, they get their money from donors and like, there's no money there.
[00:37:34] May Piamenta:
So that was my biggest question, and also in the original model, which is, the previous product, we didn't monetize them.
[00:37:41] Michael Eisenberg:
Right. You monetize the companies. And I remember you telling me early on, don't monetize the nonprofits, monetize the companies, but you are monetizing the nonprofits.
[00:37:48] May Piamenta:
And it just actually shows how doubtful I was from charging them. But today they pay us, every single one pays us five to six figure contracts.
[00:37:58] Michael Eisenberg:
Wow. And how much is it saving them?
[00:38:03] May Piamenta:
Much more.
[00:38:04] Michael Eisenberg:
Much more.
[00:38:05] May Piamenta:
So, you know, we actually started working with Nevo, with Abby.
[00:38:10] Michael Eisenberg:
Nevo is a nonprofit that I started and chair to help new immigrants to Israel, people who make what's called Aliyah, to integrate and get ahead in the tech ecosystem here.
So Abby, who May is referencing, runs it. Go ahead.
[00:38:22] May Piamenta:
Abby is amazing. So I feel, you know, when we started, we wanted to really see how we're doing something that will be a must have, money they already spend or is not coming in with something else that they now need to get used to or be educated on. Money they already spend, and this is how we also prioritize our agents.
We prioritize our agents based on the things that they pay for, quite a lot and they want to save, but they're not going to save by paying a Fiverr or something else, but actually dramatically save and drastically save with working with us.
And this is how we ended up going to the payment world and the grant-making world and all the things that actually, the revenue streams in and out are very clear. And eventually when you look at the market, yes, you have a bunch of small, super small mom-and-pop organizations that you and I can talk about, and they're probably not going to be a stable customer.
They're more of like B2C, so we're not working there. You have the big ones that have a huge team first, and this is where the game will be more of like co-pilot, assistants, and this is where they're going to probably go to the Canvas of the world, and we'll have to be very, very good in what they do in order for them to pick us over others.
And then you have 350,000 mid-market ones that are not here, not there. There are three to five people on the team. They don't have enough money to hire, but they're not too small. In this market segment, you have almost 8 billion in potential annual revenue.
[00:40:03] Michael Eisenberg:
What's your favorite agent?
[00:40:05] May Piamenta:
I cannot pick. It's like picking between my kids.
[00:40:07] Michael Eisenberg:
You don't have kids, so you can pick an agent.
[00:40:09] May Piamenta:
I have a dog.
[00:40:10] Michael Eisenberg:
That doesn't count.
[00:40:12] May Piamenta:
I really love Maggie and Grant. Today our core revenue comes from Grant.
[00:40:17] Michael Eisenberg:
Grant, he writes grants?
[00:40:19] May Piamenta:
He writes grants. He takes down—
[00:40:20] Michael Eisenberg:
Grant, the grant writer?
[00:40:21] May Piamenta:
Yes.
[00:40:22] Michael Eisenberg:
Okay.
[00:40:22] May Piamenta:
Yeah, now we have Penny, the bookkeeper, because it's Penny. It's really smart. We have Donna, donors. She's also, you know, a redhead, so, we had to, because of Suits.
[00:40:35] Michael Eisenberg:
Because of Suits?
[00:40:36] May Piamenta:
Suits! The TV show, Michael. Donna!
[00:40:39] Michael Eisenberg:
I told you, I don't know musicians, and I don't know soccer teams, and I–
[00:40:42] May Piamenta:
You have homework from today.
[00:40:43] Michael Eisenberg:
I don't have a TV.
[00:40:45] May Piamenta:
Okay. That's a completely different conversation.
[00:40:48] Michael Eisenberg:
You have a dog and a TV, I have eight kids, you know?
[00:40:51] May Piamenta:
Okay. Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. Okay.
[00:40:56] Michael Eisenberg:
So, Noam Mendelsohn.
[00:40:58] May Piamenta:
Noam.
[00:40:58] Michael Eisenberg:
Yeah. Your VP of Revenue and Growth. You must be doing a good job. And he asked a really interesting question and I had the CEO of Wolt, Lior sat in this seat a few months ago, and I should have asked her this question, but I didn't.
So he wanted to know how has the industry evolved for a female CEO and founder, over the last five years, like from when you were 19 and a CEO?
[00:41:25] May Piamenta:
Hmm. You know, I think I'm the opposite of what other women will say in the industry.
[00:41:31] Michael Eisenberg:
Go ahead.
[00:41:34] May Piamenta:
Maybe it's just me, I don't know, but I saw many women talking on stages and saying, “Yeah, we're a minority, we need to work harder.”
I don't think so. Everyone needs to work hard. Like, I feel like I'm like a street cat. I don't know if I can say that in English.
Michael Eisenberg:
You can. Alley cat.
May Piamenta:
Yeah. I feel like to me, the world is, if the door is closed, I need to find another way to get in. Yes, there are differences, there were differences when I started, there are differences because, in the industry in general, it doesn't matter if I'm a CEO or VP sales or VP R&D, there are less women. My management team is four women, three men. And I insisted on it. But I feel like to me, the thing that has changed is, there is more awareness, I feel that people are intentionally prioritizing hiring women.
I think the awareness on salary expectations is super important. When I interview women, and they come to me, and they expect something ridiculously, ridiculously low, lower than what I think they should get. I tell them like, “You're worth like 5,000 shekels more. Why are you asking for 20,000?”
But to me, I feel like I'm the opposite. Maybe it's a bit controversial, but I feel like everyone needs to work hard.
[00:43:10] Michael Eisenberg:
Why do you think you're different in that way?
[00:43:13] May Piamenta:
Because I felt like every time I was interviewed in a panel around this question, everyone was really apologizing. And like “Yeah, we're women, and it's harder for us”–it's harder for everyone.
I feel like men CEOs, they don't work any less harder than me. But yeah, they probably, their network is better, because they went to 8200, and they know a bunch of people. But maybe if I would go to 8200, I would have the same network. I don't know.
8200, the intelligence unit. But, so to me, it's, I'm a woman. It's part of my facts, good and bad. I don't think that anyone either invested in me or chose to work for me because I'm a woman. And if so, I'm happy. I think I would probably love to work under an amazing CEO I admire. It doesn't matter if it's men or women.
[00:44:09] Michael Eisenberg:
What about being young? Did anyone ever, maybe it’s the wrong term, discriminate against you or kind of go–
[00:44:15] May Piamenta:
Yeah. Age does matter. And I understand why.
[00:44:22] Michael Eisenberg:
Go ahead.
[00:44:23] May Piamenta:
Experience is important. I don't blame them. Experience is super important. When you hire, when I hire, I look for experience. People who know what–
[00:44:32] Michael Eisenberg:
What’s more important, ambition or experience?
[00:44:33] May Piamenta:
Ambition. I also hire by talent.
[00:44:36] Michael Eisenberg:
You hire by talent, not experience.
May Piamenta:
Yeah.
Michael Eisenberg:
So why do you think it's okay that they said–
May Piamenta:
I don't think it's okay.
Michael Eisenberg:
Okay.
[00:44:41] May Piamenta:
I don't think it's okay. I'm not blaming them. I feel like I understand why age can seem like, you know, “Oh, she's young. She doesn't have experience. Now I need to put 12 million, 14 million, 20 million dollars on her. Like, how can I make sure she'll do a good job?”
[00:45:00] Michael Eisenberg:
Yeah.
[00:45:00] May Piamenta:
Fair. But I feel like it's, again, it's what you make, and what you do with it. For example, to me, it was very clear that I lack experience in one, two, three, and those are the strengths I'm coming to the company with. And I need to surround myself with highly experienced individuals that will be, and I need to be the less, like– I don't want to be the smartest person in the room.
[00:45:31] Michael Eisenberg:
What's the hardest thing you've done as a young founder CEO?
[00:45:35] May Piamenta:
The breakup from Gili.
[00:45:36] Michael Eisenberg:
The breakup from Gili. Would it have mattered if you were older?
[00:45:40] May Piamenta:
No.
[00:45:40] Michael Eisenberg:
Probably not.
[00:45:41] May Piamenta:
Probably not.
[00:45:42] Michael Eisenberg:
So, October 7th happened.
May Piamenta:
Oh.
Michael Eisenberg:
That was one way to say it. You became very vocal afterwards.
[00:45:52] May Piamenta:
Correct.
[00:45:53] Michael Eisenberg:
What changed in you?
[00:45:57] May Piamenta:
Wow. October 7th. I think that that's probably the toughest question you asked, because–so I have a family member that is held hostage. His name is Segev Kalfon. He was kidnapped from the party, from the Nova festival. We have no idea what's going on with him ever since, nothing. If before October 7th, I was managing an Israeli company, now I'm proud of managing an Israeli company.
So I have a bunch of friends who are like, we have to flip. We need to say we're a global company with an Israeli site. No. I didn't spend eight months in Mount Hermon to hide the fact that I'm an Israeli. We're an Israeli company, so we raised the last round, last financing round by TLV Partners, this April. It was the toughest thing, Michael. I met you during the round.
[00:47:16] Michael Eisenberg:
Sitting outside.
[00:47:17] May Piamenta:
Yes. And their reactions were so weird, and people either told me that, “Hey, you need to just flip the company and change the Israeli primary company to be the subsidiary,” and some people were less vocal and just said, “Yeah, we're not interested.” And I ended up discovering this was the fact, which again, it's their business, but to me, professionally, this is what changed. Personally–I'm worried, Michael.
I'm worried. This is my house. This is where I want my kids to grow up. I'm worried, I'm worried, and I have to tell you, I'm not worried about Hamas. I'm not worried about any terror organization. I'm not worried about them. We're going to have good leadership. We're going to have good external relations.
We're going to be okay. I'm worried about what's going on inside Israel.
[00:48:16] Michael Eisenberg:
Are you going to fix that?
[00:48:18] May Piamenta:
I hope so. I feel like it's much, much tougher than building a good company.
[00:48:22] Michael Eisenberg:
Well, I think you can be a part of the fix.
[00:48:27] May Piamenta:
I hope so.
[00:48:27] Michael Eisenberg:
Yeah.
[00:48:28] May Piamenta:
I really hope so. Michael, what was changed in you?
[00:48:32] Michael Eisenberg:
From October 7th? I'm determined that you shouldn't be worried. That we can fix this place completely.
And there will be another generation of leadership from your generation. And I think like many people who were worried about the next generation, I think we've discovered that the 20 to 40 year olds in this country are not only okay, they're incredible. And so the future therefore is going to be very bright, and I'm just trying to dedicate my time to making sure they get a shot to make this place better.
I'm actually very optimistic, and every day that goes by I become more and more optimistic. I see just more and more incredible people like you, and others, who are getting after this. I think the second thing that changed in me is–you made the point that you're not worried about the enemies, Hamas or anything like that.
I think October 7th is a reminder that people without imaginations who deal in the real world, like ironically, I think building a tech company is harder than being a politician. There is like real competition, a real world and real technology, and things change. And we need people who are not career politicians, and people who live inside these big bureaucracies for the whole life aren't challenged on a day-to-day basis to make decisions.
Cause the world is much more uncertain than they’d have you believe. And they spend a lot of time doing risk management instead of engaging in uncertainty. And venture capital and the startup world is a lot about uncertainty, or more about uncertainty than it is about risk management. And I think that we just need more people who’ve dealt with uncertainty in there.
You wrote a post a while back about having anxiety. Why'd you do that?
[00:50:22] May Piamenta:
I didn't know anxiety exists. And I quote my best friend that is here next to me all the time is my imposter.
Michael Eisenberg:
Imposter syndrome
May Piamenta:
I have imposter syndrome. Yeah. And I feel like, to me, when I was going to the bathroom in our office, and I had to breathe multiple times before I was pitching to the team, and I'm pitching since I'm 12, like, been going to huge competitions, speak in front of 3,000 people, and then I cannot breathe, and I'm sweating, and I don't know what's going on.
And then I started hearing the words, “Hey, May, you're just, you're just anxious. It's fine. Drink some water. Sit. Take a few breaths. And you'll be okay.” And after understanding that it's okay and anxiety just happens, I wanted to talk about it. I wanted to normalize it. I wanted other people to know that, you know, even people that you would imagine are doing extraordinary things, you know, at the end of the day, I'm scared, and I'm anxious, and I thought it would help others.
[00:51:44] Michael Eisenberg:
And did it? You think?
[00:51:46] May Piamenta:
I think that's the post, you know–and I've been out there since the beginning–that's the post that I got super personal reactions from other founders, you know, 20, 25 years older than me and ones that just started who said, “Thank you for this one.” Because they actually spoke with me, like, “May, how are you coping with this?” It's like, I have Cipralex in my bag, and I have an extra shirt in my bag all the time. So if I'm sweaty, if I have a panic attack before anything important, have my makeup in my bag, I just know it's with me.
[00:52:27] Michael Eisenberg:
Okay. Who do you want to say something kind about? These are my new finishing questions. You're the first one to get it. Who's someone in our space that you'd like to say something kind about, and you think should be getting more attention and it isn't?
[00:52:41] May Piamenta:
Wow. That's such a good question. In our industry….So I know it sounds weird because you mentioned him, but Amir.
[00:52:51] Michael Eisenberg:
Amir Shevat. Yeah. He's a terrific guy.
[00:52:54] May Piamenta:
Amir. Amir is one of those people that you just really want to be around and you know, he will be so unbiased and supportive no matter what. And Amir, throughout the pivot, every conversation I had with him and I was freaking out, and I was like, “Amir, how am I gonna do it?”
And he told me “May, everything will be just fine, and I'm here for you.” And Amir, you know, he's been leading amazing product teams and he's been around, and working in Twitter, and Slack, and his record is incredible, but he's such an amazing person and he always has time to help other founders, even if he's an investor or not. So yeah, I'd pick Amir.
[00:53:45] Michael Eisenberg:
My last question for you, what is the strongly held opinion that you've changed in the last year?
[00:53:51] May Piamenta:
Wow. Hmm, a strongly held opinion I changed probably would be…can it be like a decision I thought I would make and changed?
[00:54:06] Michael Eisenberg:
An open question. Go ahead, May.
[00:54:08] May Piamenta:
I thought I will leave Israel for many years, like relocate outside of Israel for many years. And I don't think I'm going to do it.
[00:54:18] Michael Eisenberg:
Amazing. If you're listening to this podcast, by the way, I think you'll agree with me that May is quite an inspiration. I've been waiting for a while to do this conversation with you, wanted to get it done after you had not only pivoted–I mean, forget that, but you started to gain some momentum on the new business.
I think everyone who's listening will join me in wishing you, not only good luck, but much success and fortune in changing the world, which is what you're doing, using AI in particular, for an incredibly good purpose. And your journey since you're a little kid is, I think, quite remarkable.
So thank you for taking the time to join. And if you wanna learn more about May Piamenta, you have to check her out on LinkedIn. M-A-Y-P-I-A.M-E-N-T-A. And if you've enjoyed this episode, please rate us five stars on, I don't know, Apple Podcasts, and Spotify, and YouTube and subscribe to our YouTube channel and do all those wonderful things. And follow May's journey and what's going on at Vee, where you can meet the future of AI for good, really.
So thank you, May.
[00:55:26] May Piamenta:
Thank you so much, Michael.
Executive Producer: Erica Marom
Producer: Yoni Mayer
Video and Editing: Ron Baranov
Music and Art: Uri Ar
Content and Editorial: Kira Goldring
Design: Rony Karadi
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